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René
Wagner | after I in one XPSE-Thread some testify found have, The me since geraumer Time too by the head weg, have I still time moreover decided, the whole here niederzuschreiben and a Discussion to start.
The problem: Profan missing a integrierte IDE/editor.
makes we time a Bestandsaufnahme:
the Profaneigene editor: works unfashionable, bid only grundsätzliche Opportunities the Quelltextbearbeitung.
PrfPad/XProfan-Writer: something modernere completions, bid some nice Additional tools (Prozedurlisten to that jumping z.B.), becomes though not any more taken care of, with which already with XPrf9 a couple Problemchen appear
XPrfEdit: bid hervorragende Approaches/ideas (finally is the Debugger from the editor out aufzurufen), it are missing only many things to Quelltextbearbeitung and unfortunately is there since Ner geraumen while too nothing more happens.
VWP2: of my know the first umfangreiche Fenstereditor, unfortunately becomes too it not any more taken care of.
Roko ObjectCreator: atm the well bulkiest editor, becomes moreover taken care of
FA ControlBuilder: is it since kurzem on the market, can I in the momentum not to weigh up, habn only short ausprobiert
what all 3 Fenstereditoren on the lane to kompletten IDE missing: The integrierte Quelltexteditor.
Profan Debugger: Stefan quick has now Yes a kostenpflichtige Version the Debuggers published, The for professionellen Profanprogrammierer very meaningfully his might.
so far to Bestandsaufnahme, now my opinion to the Topic:
minimum the erweiterte Profan Debugger must to that Standardumfang of Profan belong. One properly höherer Price for Full Version is there only just.
to that Topic editor/IDE ists already something tougher. The Integration the PrfPad as Profan-Standardeditor went Yes to hinten go (no Programmpflege More), so comes one on duration not further.
The interesting Programmer kriegt not even for good money a without Abstriche einsetzbare IDE. here's, there give I Christian and Dieter right, the dringendste Handlungsbedarf. |
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| Mit XProfan erstellte Freeware findet ihr hier: [...]  US World Domination Tour - bombing a country near you... | 09/11/05 ▲ |
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 | If I this Topic too yet suppose would would I soon zeitmäßig here gänzlich To keinem Posting More capable. 
it is correct but - the XProfan missing a tidy IDE - of my opinion is the trouble thereby the Roland not so lockt a good stranger IDE too mitzuliefern.
means proggt too none an.
salvo, iF |
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Dietmar
Horn | Hi,
The cause for this Mißstand might eindeutig the ever moreover circa itself greifende Geiz-is-horny-Mentalität his. or the ditto with many Usern vorherrschende Motto: what nothing or only little cost, this is too nothing or only little worth!
too understand I, that itself nowadys nobody More weeks- or monatelang fürn Appel and n egg set down likes, circa a reasonable IDE to program, wovon it then Perhaps within 3 years possible 25 Lizenzen a 10 Euro sell can.
here heard one professionelles marketing- and Vertriebskonzept for XProfan on the table, or XProfan becomes so quick not again from its meanwhile right verstaubt anzusehenden corner get out. which Programmer, the to some extent professional works would like, buy is because nowadys another Programming-Language with a Minimal-editor and without real IDE, the moreover yet with Fehlfunktionen gespickt is, until goes-not any more?
clear - these umfangreichere Aufabe (professionelles XProfan-pkg) would nothing more for a Einmann-venture in Feierabendarbeit. but where standing it because written, that the not one lohnendes undertaking for a engagiertes Authors-team his could? That then naturally the cake (speak The Lizenzgebühren) in several pieces zoned go should, lying in the nature the thing begründet, but above would the beteiligten Programmer Yes well intern some can. even if I me with my opinion again whom mouth verbrennen ought to, stay I thereby: then there even to that Anfüttern a Home-Edition of XProfan with jetzigem Funktionsumfang for 60 Euro, and optional prospective a Professional-Version for z.B. 120 Euro with all the trimmings. in the comparison To others large windows-Programmiersprachen would this Price yet always right favorable.
naturally becomes then too Roland not umhin come, itself with the Weiterentwicklung of XProfan little more To strain, as the in the past tense the case been was. 10 or 20 or 30 minimale extensions (and bow-Reparaturen) per kostenpflichtigem Update add - so might it then first time past his. too the solid the vorgefertigten dialogs want of/ one dringenden Überarbeitung. If I there only z.B. on The vorgefertigten Listboxes or The Edit-Box think, becomes me each time of Neuem badly - The Buttons are so loveless hingeklatscht, as if the one dreijähriges kid with its first Gehversuchen with the Computermaus made has. And if I still on The since over 10 years in the Profan-Help mitgeschleppten Syntaxfehler think - well well, then ought to one above rather first time whom coat the Schweigens lay.
if then sometime The User come along, that any pieces the Paketes kontinuierlich weiterentwickelt and taken care of go, might itself the to 1 - 2 years too into Registrierungsgebühren widerspiegeln. unless, then must one even moreover consider, what possible yet changed or. correct go should, circa Buyer for its product to find - so is the now time in the Marktwirtschaft.
If Maik z.B. to some Time on its Page a survey started: how much Euro would your for VWPro 3.0 pay for?, then can I above only with the head shake! how much Euronen should one because for a cat in the bag afford, everybody can yet never with own eyes seen has? or ought to one for as Maßstab about The yet always fehlerbehafteten Vorversionen of VWPro, XProfan-Writer 4 or Prf-Pad take? Hinzu comes, that I it me already very thoroughly consider would, whether I once more of Authors Products buy would, with them I so in the past tense repeatedly reingefallen be. I had me then VWPro 2.0, XProfan-Writer and the Power-DLLs bought, and schwupps - to kurzer Time was The Weiterentwicklung tuned been.
naturally can in the Marktwirtschaft with its customers on only little understanding hoping, if these for 2 or 3 Tools in the amount ganausoviel or even More Euronen pay for should, How for eigentliche Programming-Language. here works the only, if for different Zielgruppen too different round about-carefree-Pakete geschnürt go, its Funktionsumfang too The interests the potential Buyer meets.
Freeware-Tools engagierter hobby-Programmer are as Nischen-Solutions well and beautiful and go too of me occasionally gladly used. still I can The Authors right well understand, as they to years the development yours Tools too time a small finanzielle reward for expect. of my opinion to is here ex one designed Level with this whole Freeware-Manie stood still vorprogrammiert. Why one such hervorragendes Tool How z.B. ROC for Programmieranfänger always and forever Freeware stay should, can I not understand, because 5 or 10 Euro for wären as Reg.-fee sure not unangemessen. who Freeware over years away anbietet, the get The Programming-Language and the Tools to that create its Frewware-Products (and its Updates) finally neither to that Nulltarif - integrally foreseen of jahrelangen Zeitaufwand, itself the this benötigte know first once anzueignen.
we've recently in the territory over our association Office-courses for unemployed person to that symbolischen Price of 5 Euro per month offered. The Resonanz held itself very in border. The equal courses over one privates Bildungsunternehmen for 100 Euro offered - and the mail goes ex, though both offers of equal Dozenten (means of me) implemented go! means, here apparently again: what nothing cost, this is too nothing worth.
or: Nachilfe-tender in a hiesigen children- and Jugendzentrum for a symbolischen Euro per hour, under sozialen Gesichtspunkten. Resonanz: same zero. the same thing tender a couple Querstraßen moreover of a professionellen Lernklub To marktüblichen Konditionen: The can of it existieren and life. In both Examples becomes the Nachhilfeunterricht of same teacher implemented (namely of me).
with the lovely XPSE-Tool shining it of my opinion to similar To his. I can XPSE in my Programmierkursen offer until goes-not-More: what nothing cost, this is too nothing worth! Why should I into Tool einarbeiten, what nothing worth is? etc., etc., etc. ...
my Kursteilnehmer get fundamentally first times for The Kursgebühr in Höhe of 15 Euro per Schulhalbjahr The 5 - 6 most important Files the Full Version Profan² 6.6 copies (naturally with Genehmigung of Roland). but already here shining To count: what nothing cost, this is neither plenty worth! who as schoolboy with its government to that next birthday or Weihnachtsfest The actually Full Version of XProfan wish (and get), the kümmert itself automatically plenty More therefore, the program Real erlernen To want and holds plenty longer through as diejenigen, them The 6.6-it Full Version really hinterhergeworfen been is. therefore I will these practice soon probably change and with whom Anfängern first time again Profan² 5.0 begin.
circa not wrong understood To go: i want not The direction agitieren, Freeware or kostengünstigere offers for sozial any weaker positioned abolish To want. but The alltägliche practice shows it me unfortunately, that one solches soziales Engagement mostly none, and now and than not more than only a little bit from the affected acknowledged or. used becomes.
but Perhaps lie I with my opinion into named Points too utterly schief. gladly would I dbzgl. one better instruct let. unfortunately spiegeln these Lines my yet assembled Experience against.
Greeting
Dietmar |
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| Multimedia für Jugendliche und junge Erwachsene - MMJ Hoyerswerda e.V. [...] Windows 95 bis Windows 7 Profan² 6.6 bis XProfan X2 mit XPSE Das große XProfan-Lehrbuch: [...] | 09/11/05 ▲ |
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| One typischer Dietmarbeitrag after it itself belong would The Thread To close there any Topics slay are.
right hatter but. 
Perhaps can I Yes time bisl stacheln ums anzuregen:
<stacheln-anfang>Selbst if I ask would who gladly with me one team grinder would circa ne tidy kostenpflichtige XProfan-IDE To proggen - who would itself whom report hä? no pig. :/:
The problem is Perhaps the XProfan Programmieranfänger are - without plenty Schimmer of program - therefore Zögerlich time something To post or. ne Question to put. Ängstlich - verschwiegen - and without Selbstwertgefühl on the area the Programming. eachone holds The tab circa mere not aufzufallen - none kricht times the Haxen high and power The tab on. 
it catches already with whom kleinsten Mißverständnissen on! there Gibts one Herrn Horst H. the fear and afraid sweating only because it time of ever Ner web page besch**** watts - the it here something pay for must if it the community betritt - and me too yet in the others Phorum slanting anquardelt weiler not kappiert the it a Difference between Eingeloggt and registered gives. or one other example: there Gibts NEN D.Zornow the itself killing above beschwert still objectively atnight time here a Page red to have - where standing - the it not reasonable is a area To to enter because it not enough Postings written has. self my Message on it thats Page one temporärer Error was could nothing on it Change the it hieß: the community betrete I jaaa nieee again! Lol - I can me there Real only on my Kopfschmerzbirne grasp.
I faith I could countless such heutzutagigen Abartigkeiten allude. If I me now but to eyes stops the it such a thing not even in entschärfter shape in others Programmierercommunitys gives - then be I still saponaceous already glad the the XProfan at all trauen in the average at least once per year whom Absendenknopf To pressing.
And if I me now too yet vorstelle thats people software produce - ähm - ne I lasses - me becomes speiübel!</stacheln-ende>
so - Perhaps beklemmt itself now time someone To nem Posting - be it only in order to verlauten what the iF still for a böser böser is which Arrogance it still rather home let solle. 
everything in everything - The XProfan are a urlahmer bunch - Yes one could already say - enttäuschend. All other are here Admins. 
the lying well simply on it - there's To little XProfan - the against lying on the Price. I mean - i'd me Real forward if it hunderttausende XProfan were - and Roland too suitable many sales realized - but for has Roland of my opinion The incorrect politics. If I considerate the it The XProfancommunity until present days not geschafft has on my own only in the XProfanhilfe to emerge - and if I considerate who The Help power - and if I considerate the the only so is weils well in Rolands interest lying and it it so would like/billigt - then can I only say: 
The Oberwitz is still to that example - the mr s.s. - the Hilfemacher - it ablehnt The Communityregeln To to accept because one copyright on the Posts lying. this is too derjenige the not creates The relevantesten XProfan-Internetseiten into Help aufzunehmen. And so someone power The Help? I find so plenty geduldete Inkompetenz can only to that actually and unbefriedigendem Result lead. in the countermove moreover however sales derjenige too yet software for XProfan which not even with XProfan - separate one Konkurenzprodukt - prepares watts. I fass me on head! 
i want here no Unheil stiften - but I be one opponent of Kuschelmuschel - the scheints but To his what the XProfan on it hindert erfolgreicher To his.
Fazit: To lahme Truppe - in the eachone his own Süppelchen blubbern can - because it of Obertruppensturmführer no durchgreifendes, transparentes and klares Regelwerk gives. the typisierte trouble of fehlender Klarheit and truth - which itself naturally and zweckgemäß lähmend äußert.
salvo, iF. |
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Bernd
Haase | Moin !
One Real interessantes Topic. there's well each crowd Hobbyprogger, The with Profane or XProfan rumspielen, but not The depths of Systemen and machines get in. If one some report reads, then blähen these isch awfully on with Fachbegriffen and Schlagworten, that many one fear and afraid and is this itself hold not any more so correctly. traut at all a Question to put. probably is the the reason, the Forums in Ensteiger and Profi unterteilt go.
I for my person use the Language range, whom me XProfan available position and avoid it any DLL einzubinden or even the API To works. The only Tools The I use are LIstview ( oh scheisse ne DLL)
and PrFellow.
Womit we at Topic IDE wären PrFellow runs always noc, too with XProfan. I have yet nothing better found, unfortunately here no Weiterpflege. would be someone this TOOL develop with the Opportunities, The PrFellow bid, I would gladly ready for too To pay for.
what Dietmar over The prices says, is correct objectively. I Have too The experience made, the something what nothing cost not well sales. example here a AVA for Architekten. take You 500 Euronen kannste You whom large earnings unnhook. Häng a zero ran and the Rubel roll. its objectively so dorky.
About The completions of If To designed Personen,can I only say, with its opinion must one as Forumbetreiber life. one ought to but as Betreiber stood off take of Anfeindungen and Beleidigungen. Dei Meingungsäußerung empfand I as hard on the boundary.
alas Yes, which politics Roland with seinem selling of XProfan betreibt, is well only and alone its thing. i'm glad, that Roland at all so a software designed has. the it not complete in development and distribution einsteigt can I too understand. he's still a family, The ernährt go must. These spots ought to one not except eight let, if one review äußert.
If a new IDE come into being should, Why goes it because not over one open-source-team. as example be here still time OpenOffice called. I Have me time whom construction and the Anwerbung of members in this Forum angeschaut. none so badly. Perhaps is this yes a lane for a new Development Environment.
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| Mit freundlichem Gruß Bernd Sind schon viele erfroren, aber noch keiner ist erstunken !![...] | 09/12/05 ▲ |
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Frank
Abbing | Hi,
then be I here well the only, the no XProfan-IDE missing. though Have so did i a complete others stand on Freeware and Kostengünstig-Products. The I gladly and plenty anwende.
Editoren there still How sand on the sea. who itself only slightly trouble gives and thereafter seek, becomes too fündig.
but there's already what dran, if behauptet becomes, that Lowcost-software everywhere schief respected becomes. I yourself observe it Yes on of my software, The almost always Freeware is or only very little cost. here would like I only time my XProfanInlineAssembler note. cost nothing, leistet some - get but no Resonanz. i want even insist, that only 2-3 man it earnestly using and itself so keep busy. withal Crashkurs in Assembler and simply anzuwendener engineering. simply only whom Ordner into Profanordner copy, likewise How whom terrific XPSE. accordingly stand the Profanprogrammierer two complete Languages in a available, The together hervoragend sybiotisieren. but ok, let we the.
anyway need I no profanes everything-in-one-carefree-pkg ala AOL, what In any Deppen reported is, but therefore unflexibel and amateurish and is eachone erstellten software its note aufdrückt. additionally yet unverhältnismässig valuable and unübersichtlich. mandatory I do not having.
Rolands lane is none so wrong. it backing some dedicated Programmer - The Profan with expandierenden Tools bereichern - through Free Updates. this is one my eyes one geschickter train - one give and take.
though is it in grafischen Things not sonderlich versiert, here counts it, Website and profaninterne Visualisierungen urgently To revise.
too The decision, s.s. with the Help beauftragen, found I do not been successful. alone its advertisement fit me there not, one Copyrightvermerk inside the Textes would thoroughly enough been - the Splashscreen is utterly unangebracht.
to that Topic Profanbugs would like I yet say, that Roland tappt im dunkeln immediate attempts auszumerzen, if it The Possibility moreover has. naturally is it ridiculous it a gigant View source To send and then To say: there's somewhere the Error drin, find it time. me yourself regt the on, if me such Monstercodes skillful go, instead of a small View source to create, in the the Error obviously becomes. In 80 percent all Cases is a Error eh not at Ersteller the software to find, separate with the inability the Users. so is it my experience. |
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René
Wagner | @iF
i'd time say tidy on the Topic vorbeigeschossen.
circa only on a small part your Postings einzugehen: against sachliche review is nothing einzuwenden, personal Anfeindungen - straight as they of Forenbetreiber come - witnesses sooner of which Inkompetenz. to the remainder say I nothing.
@Frank
your viewpoint isn't from the hand To point, it deckt itself in weiten sharing too with the my. I have me Profan anyway not angeschafft, because it one 2. VB/Delphi is.
here was the concept IDE well something high clutched. In first line goes it me circa a for Profan optimierten Quelltexteditor.
naturally can I my favorisierten Texteditor take, there The Profan-Syntax einpflegen (if it not already a Syntaxvorlage gives) and so happy go. it supplant but not whom comfort, The Special Editoren How XPrfW/XPrfEdit afford. |
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| Mit XProfan erstellte Freeware findet ihr hier: [...] US World Domination Tour - bombing a country near you... | 09/12/05 ▲ |
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Frank
Abbing | Hi,
> naturally can I my favorisierten
> Texteditor take, there The Profan-Syntax
> einpflegen (if it not already a Syntaxvorlage
> gives) and so happy go.
the has at least whom benefit, I several Programmsprachen with a editor valet can.
> it supplant
> but not whom comfort, The Special Editoren
> How XPrfW/XPrfEdit afford.
who on Sesselpupser-Flaire standing...Please. but in the Grunde is not determining, circa good programs to create.
I wanted to too only note, the self the konfortablste Spezialeditor not all just go can. The a gefällt itself therein, too exotischte items organize to, whom others slay so a emense diversity Perhaps. Humans are even differently, and all becomes one it never right make can... |
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| So I personally come too with a einfachen Notepad from - I find neither the the Rolandeditor objectively badly is. me has it long Time good services done. Perhaps be I but too of Linuxseiten deutliche schlechteres dwelt.
here - who a crazy XProfanIDE would like - can itself that here buy: [...] 
this product slay everything!
I yourself take in the meantime TextPad - with the can I sprachübergreifend write and press only Strg+1-9 for jeweiligen Compiler.
I likes z.B. no Editoren which chiefly only with the mouse bedient go can. I personally observe me rather any Tastenkombies and be so too explicit faster. therefore TextPad.
for any others: UEStudio!
salvo, iF. |
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Frank
Abbing | Hi.
> I likes z.B. no Editoren which chiefly
> only with the mouse bedient go can.
> I personally observe me rather any Tastenkombies
> and be so too explicit faster. therefore
> TextPad.
there GEHTS already go with the distinguished. I yourself hate Tastenkombinationen and use, wos goes my Trackball...
Obs so plenty slower is, no idea. I use ConText. |
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Frank
Abbing | Nochmal I.
> The Oberwitz is still to that example - the
> mr s.s. - the Hilfemacher - it ablehnt
> The Communityregeln To to accept because
> one copyright on the Posts lying. the
> is too derjenige the not creates
> The relevantesten XProfan-Internetseiten
> into Help aufzunehmen. And so someone
> power The Help? I find so plenty geduldete
> Inkompetenz can only to that actually and unbefriedigendem
> Result lead. in the countermove moreover however
> sales derjenige too yet software for
> XProfan which not even with XProfan
> - separate one Konkurenzprodukt - prepares
> watts. I fass me on head!
in the Help existing too no Link on my software. this is Real sorry. what about me must iF utterly right give. The Help watts of jemandem prepares, the only its interests To represent shining. advertisement for its Own (kostenpflichtige) software power, instead of old Help-Error auszumerzen. there has Roland none good handle done... |
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(1.871)
an Anfeindung comes means not of of my Page from - separate is integrally evident one Result of fehlender Farsightedness derer which not To manners know. in the Übrigen I will me always bemühen because of of past Ereignissen Anfeindungen in the XProfanbereich from the ways to go. me gabs of course to Time the wicked wicked XProfananfeindungen not yet - but I watts Yes inoculated.
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