XProfan

- Page 5 -

Stefan, i'd you still not only The couple (nauseous) Bilderchen here hochstellen, that association can supra too loading (The File extension zipper simply Remove), Paul hats already loaded.

Each axis becomes lenkbar his and each wheel particular powered, that is correctly. whether it rather is if with whom Lenkmotoren The Pos. instead of Drehzahl geregelt is, that knows I do not, but I be I do not really sure.

What the gear angeht so have I moreover only Schneckengetriebe in the head, means slow kraftvolle Übertragung.

with Steckdosengerät likewise only slugs for Kraftübertragung. the Steckdosengerät is too only implied, that association have I still only fix hingemalt with a Program that I before yet never bediente - is means never entire.

The Stecker self becomes such flacher Stecker his, not such Runder the heavy einzustecken is.

likewise go normal Schuko-cans found/recognized and used - no Präparierten separate integrally normal Steckdosen.

The Höhe the Steckers (Y-axis) becomes one motor take on can and a another motor can whom Stecker in X-direction "ausfahren" - The Z-direction can over The Räder certainly go.

so one fertiges Chassis would naturally cool, hauptsache The Räder are particular aufgehangen and particular antreibbar and the tire are higher as the Vehicle self so it How in the association theoretical too inverse around betrieben go can.

08/06/09 ▲

Stefan
M.
Caillet

Hello iF, sorry, because of of my idiotischen explorers could I the rechten part the Page not see. with 100% Ansichtsgrösse cut it me whom rechten Seitenrand ex (since The Images drin are) and blinds me too no Horiz. Scroll bar one. vergrössere I The Page (factor More as 100%) can I of course to right scroll, but not any more down, because once I The Mouse button loslasse, of beam runtergehe or only slightly far to right drive, Have I again whom left Seitenrand displayed, moreover becomes me the rights Seitenrand at the Scrolling only ca 1,5 Sec. displayed. now, i'm hold no Hochgeschwindigkeitsschnittstelle, I custom little more Time to that reading. If I The Page verkleinere (on 75%) becomes tappt im dunkeln complete displayed, but I can The Font then hardly yet reading, without in that TFT To cringe, and there's it Real tight. others Pages in the NTY, The not so grosse Images having, go correctly displayed.
so, now about: Have me now SketchUp too runtergeholt and inst. will be me The Images nacher reinziehen. What the Lenkung concerns is clear, both Achsen are gelenkt, and so How I the see, each for itself, means not zusammengeschaltet, so that You over the PC indicate canst: lenken in front (li/re), lenken hinten (li,re), lenken in front + hinten (li/re)
what Positionsansteuerung the Lenkung anbelangt: look time, if The Lenkung drehzahlgesteuert is, and You give command: lenken in front to right drehzal 80%, dan must You u.u damn on Zack his, around the again timely To stop. If it still to nerve übertragungsverzögerung comes, läuf The lenkung fully into (hopefully vorhandenen) Endabschalter - unless, You untersetzt The Lenkmotoren so high, that one voller lenkausschlag several sec needed, To it complete set is. If you but the Lenkung Positions gesteuert make,becomes the command To: lenken in front, to right, 80% the Vollausschlages - what with one lenkwinkel of z.B li u. re apiece 45strain, one lenkwinkel of 36strain corresponds to. thereby is the Lenkgeschwindigkeit only from the Maxdrehzahl the Lenkmotors tributary.
urged on:
there have You me etl. wrong understood, that The Räder each of a own motor, and so particular powered are is Yes clear from your Zeichnungen obviously. my question concerned The regulation the Motoren - it power Yes none sense each motor another Drehzahl or even Drehrichtung To miss out on (the in front li with 75% along,at the same time the hinten li with 30% back). but it can thoroughly vortelhaft his, The left Motoren together on a regulator To hang, and The Rechten Notoren together on a second regulator. circa dan so The possibility to have, on the place To turn.
Schneckengetriebe, Yes seh so did i so! (i'm something like of very for slugs, ultimately is the Kosename of my woman already long "Schnäggli" - for all not the swiss german mighty: Schneckchen).

greeting Stefan

Ich habe grosses Glück, weil ich Mitmenschen helfen darf.
Entwicklungsumgebung:
XProfan11 , Win XP Pro 32Bit , Win XP Home ,Win7 HomePremium 64Bit
PC: P4/3GHz , 2GB RAM , 1700GB HD
Laptop: Intel Core 2 Duo /2,2GHz , 4GB RAM , 500GB HD

08/06/09 ▲

OK, means to Lenkung: Drehzahlgesteuert with very high Untersetzung, that it quiet z.B. 4-5 Sec. last must until plot. The Positionsteuerung credit I on attempt not very good, that wheeler uses eh a permanente Kallibrierung and Positionierungsgedöns would for me only Umrechnerei mean. there would me first of all a simple "analoge" Variante rather. I can but well present you later on Knieen anzuflehen, over again the unit To strain, for a positionsgesteuerte Lenkung. first of all but if mgl. integrally normales Motorengedöns with high Untersetzung so too really strength on the Lenkung is z.B. if time again "Schlamm" is announced.

and to the particular steuerbaren Antriebsmotoren: objectively would like I each wheel discretionary steer can - means too so it the wheeler streckt or staucht if it his must. means z.B. VL 30% to, HL 50% back, VR 70% back, HR 80% to.

to Nity: I look same if I again in the land be, what very there schiefläuft. I mean clear, I could FF recommend, but you become IE (unfortunately) sure not without reason benefit.

Stefan
M.
Caillet

How You want, Drehzahlgedteuert. in the drop should You but to safety Endabschalter install otherwise can I you already almost ensure, that it you former or Later The Lenkansteuerung (Spurstangen, Steuerseile, according to the what You einsetzt) around the Lenkmotoren wickelt

I find The Drhezahlsteuerung not very efficient and ausserdem äusserst inaccurate, but since You, the Yes program must, is it for me OK. i'll the anyway so solve: You get of me the Gerätchen with Drehzahlsteuerung for Lenkung, these however as gestecktes Module perform. this Module becomes in the unit stuck and ensured. if You Later time change want, can You by me simply the Module demand, and free from problems in the unit replace,additionally mussen gekapselte Potentiometer on whom Getriebeausgang the Lenkmotoren appropriate go. inside the Gerätes is the Difference only minimal, The Leistzngsstufe is with both same, ledieglich The processing the from the Steuerbefehl begot Steuerspannung distinguish itself.. with Drehzahllenkung settle we The thrill into PWM (Puls Weiten Modulation = signal with variable Impulsweite) signal circa. with the Positions- or Proportional Lenkung, becomes The Steuerspannung directly with the thrill on the Abgriff the Potis on the Lenkgetriege compared,(Spannungsvergleicher) and the Lenkmotor as long as verstellt To The Stuerspannung and Potispannung coincide. The grösste benefit thereby is, the surch whom commands AUS without that The software yet something to charge must, the Moonbuggy again geradeaus drives, there this prinzipbedingt in the hardware the Control the Lenkmotors integrate is (without command, or if this 0 is, kehrt the Lenkmotor into Mittelsellung back. How You this with the Drehzahlstteuerung hinbekommen want, the the thing too only roughly geradeaus drives, Have I no idea - to that Happiness custom I the neither, there Yes You these software write, be but äusserst tensely. be me but sure the You, the hinbekommst, because as Programmer are Gu me circa Lichtjahre ahead. (I wish, I could only one tenth so well ,and(quick) program How You.
Antriebe, OK. each motor particular. hopefully verheizt it me The Endstufen not, go well each single withal Getriebemotoren so around the 70amp Dauerstrom and 240A Puls-power hold up can must. we're The Motoren long and often enough gegeneinander run, catch we the thing sometime too in a 1,1M parking space.

greeting Stefan

E.T.

Why because with the Lenkung such one hoisted ?? I geb there Stefan right,
couple Power-Servos wären viiiieeel accurate and rather To to check on / To steer.

or building same ne Knickrahmen-Lenkung: simply aufzubauen, less moving pieces on whom Achsen (no Kreuzgelenke etc., there any 2 Achsen Starr-Achsen are) and so less Defekt-susceptible, less Wenderadius etc. usf.. and with not To ungünstigem wide-Höhe-Relationship the Vehicels can so integrally slight selbiges z.B. again "auf The legs bringen", if it time on The Page geplumpst is

.

too at urged on would I the opinion, the plainer plenty effizienter his can: ONE motor (or 2 together on a Antriebs-before because of the strength). moreover one Differential in the middle to distribution forwards and hinten, per axis still one Diff. for right and linkes wheel, is done The optimale strength-distribution on 2 Achsen / 4 Räder.

(having we in the RC-Car-area already long...)

Control the Motoren: Gibts in the "gut sortierten Fachhandel"

[offtopic](not "C..." or so, The having only cheap-Schrott from Shanghai) [/offtopic]

in the meantime so named "Fahrtregler" for Elektro-RC-Cars, which well and gladly 300 Amps pointed hold up

@Stefan: buy you time ne new keyboard

Grüße aus Sachsen... Mario
WinXP, Win7 (64 Bit),Win8(.1),Win10, Win 11, Profan 6 - X4, XPSE, und 'nen schwarzes, blinkendes Dingens, wo ich das alles reinschütte...

Stefan
M.
Caillet

Hello E.T.
Yes, with the the Lenkung.... But its decision. it must the thing ultimately and finally program, so it it Lenken can.
With the whom AntriebsMotoren see I so: myself fide it yet right klever, each wheel with nem own motor auszustatten. If iF there geschikt aufbaut, namely The Motoren mitsammt gear directly on (in) whom Rädern plaziert, need it not time one Kreuzgelenk. by the single-Ansteuerung the Motoren can it, if eachone too yet NEN Sensor own, over The Programming plenty with Antischlupfregelung u.Ä. make. this is already OK. need simply More Fahrtregler. Since I in the Steuer-unit The Steuerbefehle of up to 16 Motoren 25 up to 50 time (must yet testing whether my Wandler there mitkommt) per Sec empfange and a thrill umwandle, can I these slight in 16 Kondensatoren zwischenspeichern and then from this widerum can I slight one PWM-signal for motorregelungen win. likewise can I but these thrill through Fet-OPAMP directly with Ner Poti-Stellung vergleichen circa ne Nachfürung To produce (SERVO). The others Variante would naturally one PWM-signal the RC-Fernsteuerungs compatible is,should then but certainly the a or others Servoelektronik self produce (larger ones Drehwinkel) too for the Lenkung bräuchten we with this Size and weight (ca. 40Kg, Räder ca. 35cm Durchmesser) extreme strong Poverservos. and there are The käuflichen correctly. valuable. The problem isn't the force, The we need in order to to put, separate The Rückwirkenden Kräffte of these right grossen Rädern. clear there must then sure yet n Servosaver between.
too good Fahrtregler for 12V are schwerer available, wiel straight with RC-Cars are most on 7,2-8,4V ausgelegt, and otherwise again right valuable. there can I The circa some better make, if I The directly in my Steuergerät integrate. fit already so.
greeting Stefan

@E.T.: Welcome in the team.

OK, a Question to Positionslenkung: If the Lenkeinschlag _gehalten go should, is it then necessary, that one Lenkmotor permanent turn? unless, then is well (How I now understood have) The Positionslenkung The better electoral around the I requests would.

with of/ one Knickrahmen-Lenkung place I me to, that these whom disadvantage has, that The Räder not the place lenken can, separate it at Lenken always a Versatz gives, whom I really not at all would like too the Fahrzeuggewichtes because of.

Stefan M. Caillet, Beitrag=53748, Zeitpunkt=07.08.2009

we're The Motoren long and often enough gegeneinander run, catch we the thing sometime too in a 1,1M parking space.

greeting Stefan

the ought to in the emergency possible his, as an bee The ihren sting einmalig uses.

iF, Beitrag=53751, Zeitpunkt=07.08.2009

Stefan
M.
Caillet

OK, a Question to Positionslenkung: If the Lenkeinschlag _gehalten go should, is it then necessary, that one Lenkmotor permanent turn?

Hello iF, No must it not. The lenkbefehl becomes over The Paralelle interface as number of 0 To 255, means as 8bit word, gesendet.my unit setting this folgendermassen circa: bit0 - bit6, means Dezimal 0 To 127 go as information used, how much Lenkausschlag desired is (with whom Antriebsmotoren
is this The Info, how much Drehzahl desired becomes), important thereby is: 0 corresponds to 0% deflection, means geradeaus rad. (with whom Antriebsmotoren means the: 0 corresponds to 0% Drehzahl, means stood still)
127 means 100% deflection (with whom Antriebsmotoren means the: 127 corresponds to 100% Drehzahl, means everything what The pair give, Höchstgeschwindigkeit)
between 0 and 127 can any numbers drove go.
then is there yet bit7. this bit certainly in which direction the through bit0 - bit6 festgelegte deflection results means left or right. too with whom Fahrmotoren becomes through this bit set whether the motor along or backward turn, and here again is the Drehzahl by the Bits bit0 - bit6 set.
with the Lenkung, as well as with whom Fahrmotoren must the commands as long as repeatedly go, To another Lenkausschlag (another Drehzahl) desired becomes. therefore stay The Fahrmotoren too stand, if The communication between PC and my unit ausfällt. (No Info, no Drehzahl/Drehrichtung.
The Lenkung behave itself thereby something differently: with fehlender Info becomes The Lenkung automatically on geradeaus set, and verbleibt in this Stellung, until a new Info/new commands sustain.
comes one commands for a Lenkausschlag, happens the following The number the Bits bit0 - bit6 becomes in a thrill between 0V and 5V umgesetzt (The SOLL-thrill, the Potentiometer (Poti) the mechanical on whom Lenkmotor yoked is becomes verstellt, when the Lenkmotor turn. electrical is the resistance the Potis on the a Page with volume, means 0V, and on the others Page with of/ one reference-thrill (detailed, stabilisierte thrill, the ever same tall is, alike whether The battery fully or empty) joined. now can on the Schleifer the Potis, according to Stellung the Potis (and so too the Lenkmotors) a suitable IST-thrill worn go. These IST-thrill is So the Maas for, in which Stellung The Lenkung momentarily IST. The thrill now becomes the Lenkmotor as long as by the SPANNUNGSVERGLEICHER in pursued staid, To The IST-thrill the SOLL-thrill corresponds to then remaining the Lenkmotor stand. ought to itself now during the rad through some Hinderniss (z.B. one stone) The Lenkung adjust, (what with one Schneckengetriebe if at all only very heavy possible is, would itself too the Poti adjust, by which The IST-thrill not any more the SOLL-thrill entsprich. The SPANNUNGSVERGLEICHER observes this and setting immediate whom Lenkmotor in pursued, so The difference between IST and SOLL again equalized is. the nice thereby is, that all this Hardwaremassig in my Steuergerät Done becomes. On same point, only Hardwaremässig something differently resolved, works too The Funkfernbedienungen for z.B RC-Cars or Modellflieger. this is the what classic as proportional Control marks, (having with the Positions-gesteuert only slightly unhappy framed). You can means beruhigt his, The Lenkmotoren walk means only as long as, To the desired Lenkausschlag access is and chid dan ex, To another Lenkausschlag erwünscht is, or itself the Lenkausschlag through äussere influences (z.B. start one Steines) changes.
Knickrahmenlenkung: have I ditto because of the Gewichtes my deliberating, unless, one would each a battery directly over the Achsen, beautiful austariert, settle. but it would nevertheless a massiven Stahlrahmen require, i think not, that we there with Alu get by would - or having we a good aluminum-Schweisser in the team? Desweiteren takes us so one massives joint in the Fahrzeugmitte valuable Space lane. i think with the All-Radlenkung are we on gutem lane.
And if we The Lenkung now Proportional (Positiongesteuert) make. is think I everything in Butter.
greeting Stefan

Juhu the sound super!

08/08/09 ▲

Stefan
M.
Caillet

Hello iF, there the Grundkonzept now (almost) standing, design I The Schaltpläne in the detail. what me but yet always missing, is the Skizze the Beweglichen Arms around the Stecker into Steckdose To lead. in the zipper Have I only one einziges Image found, still there's of poor unfortunately nothing To see. I need The indicated from the Skizze now urgently, so I The Schaltpläne correctly create can. only so can I ensuring, that the unit any Steuer-Module in the right Dimensionierung contains.
what about me must from it absolutely ersehen can, which joint in wievielen plains, how much mobility having.
once I these indicated from you through Skizze receive, and whom Schaltplan umgesetzt have, make we thoughts above, whether and as we evt. spare-exits perform.
thereafter take I The Sensorik in forward line.
on the wednesday I will you again report over the progress the Schaltpläne to repay.

@E.T. what is correct because with my keyboard not? If you mistake in writing mean, lying the well sooner on the cretins, the The keyboard bedient. If you The Grammatik mean, now german is for me as Schweizer now time ne Fremdsprache. If you my Schreibstil mean: I faith not, the the with Ner new keyboard rather becomes, ifs already my teacher not ready brought having, me a better Style beizubringen.

means at least Have I in the last keyboard, The I auseinandergeschraubt have, nothing of a Schreibstil seen.

But if it then still ne new his should: know You ne good keyboard, best with eingebauter Fehlerkorrektur, and on the dearest with integriertem Ghost Writer? - because I schreib hold now times not gladly!

greeting Stefan

08/09/09 ▲

Heh, in the ZIP is still The 3D-association-File, ought to itself means z.B. 3D-turn and discover let.

Related to the beweglichen poor have I in the meantime so in the head:

wheeler of supra:


O-----O

.x-Z-x.

O-----O

x are Stecker, these flachen Stecker (if too naturally this präparierte) which itself slight in a Schukodose pressing let.

-Z- is a axis which in the Höhe veränderbar is - probably ought to the heavy- and Hebepunkt in the middle his instead of How in the association. The axis can also to left or right herausgefahren go, means ought to well the motor, which The axis delay can, with lifted go of motor, which The gadget raise can.

on eachone Page, unweit of exit for Stecker, find itself 2 Cams which the Dosenfinden make possible for Steuerbefehle. (The kreisrunden höhenversetzt holes on the Page.)

Höhenänderung and Ausfahren naturally again seehr slow, Schnecke - with strength.

probably heave the Hebemotor itself self, whom Ausfahrmotor, and the Gestänge at a axis which of supra down by the wheeler in the Fahrzeugmitte appropriate is.

solely whom Stecker turn can the wheeler not, have this no idea and vlt. is the neither so important there in the Normalfall a tin relatively to that ground always relatively straight appropriate is what about me neither vorhabe, turned cans To discern.

Dou you mean something like?

08/09/09 ▲

have from the Mondfahrzeugthread one Forum made, vlt. can we Topics so rather manage.

08/09/09 ▲